Francine - harvest
I Blame the Dutch mpoetess
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GIP, and Wank
Because I'm incapable of not being wanky while away from my own pc, apparently.

So I say? Buffy and Spike had a tender, humorous, happy ending...in that episode we all missed. Buffy admitted she loved him when he wasn't dying and in a way that he actually believed... in that episode we all missed. Angel and Cordelia made narrative and characterizational sense... in that episode we all missed. Dawn and Connor met... in that episode we all missed. Xander said Angel was an attractive man and Spike was compact but well-muscled, and Angel kissed Spike on the forehead, and alternate universe Doyle passed his visions on to Angel instead of Cordy... in that episode we all -- oh. Wait.

Really. Sour. Fucking. Grapes. Why do the "slash in the Buffyverse is too trendy and not believable" people *care* about stories that are being written that they're not interested in reading? Because "their" Spuffy (and other het ship) writers have decided slash is interesting, and aren't providing them with their daily fix of *their* favorite 'ship, perhaps?

No one's coming right out and saying which slash stories actually aren't believable, and you know why? It's not out of politeness -- it's because there's jack-all evidence to back up the wild generalizations that "more then half of those stories have no plot and is purely focused on the fucking" 1 and general widespread statements that the stories are out of character or otherwise badly written. Because almost every "new wave" slash writer is a *good* het writer who happened to decide she's interested in slash.

So? My wanky interpretation, which is still a hell of a lot less offensive than Isabelle's "I think it's because y'all haven't been getting any dick" is: "you" can't admit you're just pissed that your favorite writers aren't writing what *you* want them to write, that your preferences aren't being validated, and no writer anywhere owes you jack-shit.

So you fall back on the "slash is out of character -- except for *well-written* slash, of course" bullshit. But you can't name names because you know you'd be laughed off the stage for saying anniesj's slash sucks -- and the "bad" slash mostly comes from fluffy-duffy "I write for fun and my friends like it so leave me alone" people who were slashers all along, and you've never heard of them, so you can't complain that they're abandoning the Holy Canon Pairings.

My heart bleeds. Sour. Fucking. Grapes. And if you don't want to start [clutches pearls] Another Fandom War, Isa? Don't post offensive bullshit and then act like you're being attacked for your beliefs. You're not being attacked for your beliefs -- you're being attacked for your rudeness, immaturity, and disengenousness.


1 quoth a guest commenter on the "You all need some dick" post.

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eliade

2003-08-31 02:10 pm (UTC) (Link)

Oh my god. This cracks me the hell *up*, I'm not even kidding. An "infestation" of slash, but she's not homophobic because she has a gay cousin, and we're all man-hating feminists man-loving slashers just because we haven't gotten some deep dicking in a while?

That's beauty. Thanks for the link.

thebratqueen

2003-08-31 02:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

You know I have a straight cousin. Maybe I should ask her what she thinks about Buffy/Spike, since apparently I have to vector all my opinions through somebody else.

Asshole lost? - needfire, 2003-08-31 03:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Asshole lost? - darkrosetiger, 2003-08-31 04:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Asshole lost? - drdawn, 2003-09-05 10:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Asshole lost? - needfire, 2003-09-07 11:07 am (UTC) (Expand)

zortified

2003-08-31 02:10 pm (UTC) (Link)

Somebody's slashing the Angel and Buffy guys?

byrne

2003-08-31 02:19 pm (UTC) (Link)

That's the rumour.

Tag.

but no rush because I'm kinda busy and tomorrow works well.

(no subject) - mpoetess, 2003-08-31 02:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zortified, 2003-08-31 02:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - apetslife, 2003-09-02 09:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)

nostalgia_lj

2003-08-31 02:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

OMG! THERE'S GAY SEX FICTION?!! OMG!!!

Err, seriously though, where the fuckery has she been these past seven years? BTVS is the most bitextual fandom I've yet come across, it's not like the gay started last week. Dude... And her squeeing anti-slash fangirls? Crack my shit up. They really do. *giggles madly*

wickedprincess3

2003-08-31 02:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

No but you see *now* there's an infestation because two writers that used to write the PURE hetlove of Spike/Buffy wrote some EVAL Spikeslash. Slowly the hordes of slash writers will descend upon them forcing them to give up their het writing ways.

Apparently slashers are like the Borg.
You will make Spike gay.
Resistence is futile

(no subject) - nostalgia_lj, 2003-08-31 02:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - azarsuerte, 2003-08-31 02:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wickedprincess3, 2003-08-31 02:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mpoetess, 2003-08-31 02:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ozfan, 2003-08-31 02:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thebratqueen, 2003-08-31 03:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zortified, 2003-08-31 03:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - onetwomany, 2003-08-31 03:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ozfan, 2003-08-31 02:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - azarsuerte, 2003-08-31 03:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ozfan, 2003-09-03 11:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj, 2003-08-31 04:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - diva_stardust, 2003-08-31 02:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)

miggy

2003-08-31 02:36 pm (UTC) (Link)

Wow. Reading that blog entry's comments was like stumbling into a junior high classroom.

"I just want to add. I think it's fucking ridiculous and fucking absurd that people that claimed to be "Spuffy forever" fans are jumping this ship to slash or anything else. That fucking pisses me off. Don't fucking say you're a Spuffy shipper and then jump them, just because Buffy is over doesn't mean that you shouldn't still love and ache for them. If this is the case, you aren't a true shipper fan, no matter whom you ship."
 
Okay, a rather vulgar junior high classroom.

I

scorpiodragon

2003-09-02 12:17 pm (UTC) (Link)

Wow. Reading that blog entry's comments was like stumbling into a junior high classroom.</a>

I was thinking the exact some thing when I read this. I use to be a Spuffy shipper but frankly felt like Buffy needed to comp to her own unhealthy behaviour. But that's another subject altogether. The point is over the course of the show relationships changed, UST ran wild and gave fic writer's plenty on opprotunity's to work with all kinds of Het and Slash pairings.

In the process of writing this Isabelle's alienated a lot of her fans because there are a ton of people who have multiple ships in BtVS that they like. I like Wes/Lilah but I've read a few good Wes/Spike fics too. There's room for everyone, Isabelle just needs to chill out.



backfromspace

2003-08-31 02:45 pm (UTC) (Link)

I would just like to take this opportunity to point out that yes indeed, I like slash fanfic because I do not in fact get any dick.

Thank you.

eliade

2003-08-31 03:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

See, I think I wrote *Spuffy* because I wasn't getting dick. I wonder where that fits into the schema of authorial motivation. By the same loony rationale I should go out in front of my apartment building, lie down on the sidewalk, spread my legs, and stop writing fan-fiction entirely. Because I'd be healed. By the power of dick.

(no subject) - gairid, 2003-08-31 03:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mpoetess, 2003-08-31 03:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - backfromspace, 2003-08-31 04:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rebelpoetus, 2003-09-01 06:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - backfromspace, 2003-09-01 12:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rebelpoetus, 2003-09-01 01:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)

giogio

2003-08-31 02:50 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yerwha?

*crawls back into cave clutching happy, fucking sparkly boys*

mpoetess

2003-08-31 02:51 pm (UTC) (Link)

*tucks you in*

*gives you more nebulously legal medication*

;-)

(no subject) - giogio, 2003-08-31 02:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - darkrosetiger, 2003-08-31 04:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - giogio, 2003-08-31 04:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)

lumenara

2003-08-31 02:52 pm (UTC) (Link)

You have footnotes. I love you so much.

And I always find it amusing when the attack is set forth in such poor-excuse-for-writing-fashion that I wouldn't normally bother to read it even if it contained something I wanted to see. It's a lovely way of adding insult to insult, I think-- I care fervently about this subject, and must condemn you and your evil ways, but can't be bothered to run a spell-check...

Also, I'm confused. There are males who don't have assholes? What's a "todal" wave? And what the hell does "ogar" mean?

mpoetess

2003-08-31 03:07 pm (UTC) (Link)

*cracks up*

Poor, poor males who don't have assholes! How will they receive the Blessing of Spike's Holy Gay Dick?


(I think for "ogar" she meas "agar" which is a sticky saplike glue used to fix specimens/covers to slides.)

(no subject) - eliade, 2003-08-31 03:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - backfromspace, 2003-08-31 04:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - herself_nyc, 2003-08-31 04:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mpoetess, 2003-08-31 05:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pipsqueaky, 2003-08-31 08:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)

akacat

2003-08-31 03:10 pm (UTC) (Link)

I find it interesting that so much of the anger is being redirected (bidirected?) to people who dare to stray from their original OTP.

Yes. How dare anyone explore new (to them) characters. Next thing you know, people will be watching new TV shows! The nerve! And don't you try to tell me that the show going off the air is an excuse; you stay right where you are, missy!

Er. I wonder if I might have forgotten to take my meds this morning...

thebratqueen

2003-08-31 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)

One of my favs was the comment to the effect of "What? Are they all bored with the ships that canon gives them?"

Uhh... I'll take things that should be self-evident for $100, Alex.

Whoa! It's a very long time since I've been this angry

mistressace

2003-08-31 03:13 pm (UTC) (Link)

I honestly haven't been part of the Buffy fandom for a long time but I like your writing and I've kept you on my LJ. Based on the respect I have for you, I followed the link to her blog and I am righteously pissed. As an co-author of a Spike/Riley story (probably the one they were ranting about), I am currently seeing red. How can anybody watch Buffy and not see the sexual undertones between the males? Are they that f***king blind?

I just fired off a salvo for the sake of those of us who used to write Buffy slash and who do still write it. Let's see if it stirs up the hornet's nest.

Children should not be allowed near computers without adult supervision. That's the only thing further that I have to say about this.

Hugs

Ace

Re: Whoa! It's a very long time since I've been this angry

established_jm

2003-08-31 05:04 pm (UTC) (Link)

How can anybody watch Buffy and not see the sexual undertones between the males? Are they that f***king blind?

Apparently they are, Ace. I feel like pointing them towards the OBVIOUS shout-out to the slashers in Beneath You, when the girl asks "Is there anyone here that hasn't slep together?", and Spike and Xander just give each other that look.

Nummy Treats indeed! LMAO!

Hence why I generally stay out of fandom in general ;)

buffyx

2003-08-31 03:22 pm (UTC) (Link)


Well, I'll be honest-- not a big slash fan here myself. Oh, I like some pairings, especially Spike/Angel, but I'm not the type to go crazy over it. But I've realized that that's just my personal tastes, and I'm sure as hell not going to get all pissed off at other people for writing it. I think it's called the first amendment, yeah?

I definitely don't think it's fair to call all people who don't like slash homophobic (not saying you did, just that within this whole kerfuffle, I've been getting some vibes like that). I think it's fair to claim that the popularity of slash as of late has seemed to surge, and yeah, some people aren't as happy with it as others. I also think it's fair for people to express their dislike of slash, so long as it's done in a diplomatic manner, and not in a "well since I hate slash, nobody should write it EVER and cater to my favorite het ship" way.

I don't know if I'd call this particular chick homophobic, since that's a pretty serious label to put on someone you don't really know. An idiot, yes, but not homophobic. She sounds insanely rabid about Spuffy 4eva, as do some of the commentors. Kind of like the hardcore Ducks, where the idea of any other ships even in fanfic with one of the factors of their beloved pairing is blasphemy.


mpoetess

2003-08-31 03:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

[nod] -- and FWIW -- I didn't call her homophobic. I'm not willing to venture an opinion on that. But I mostly don't think her rant is about "Eww the icky gay sex" -- I think it's about "I'm 12 and my pairing might not be the most popular anymore and you signed in BLOOD when you joined the Spuffy fanclub, you traitorous bitches."

(no subject) - buffyx, 2003-08-31 04:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
*snicker* - robintcj, 2003-08-31 09:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - estepheia, 2003-08-31 04:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)

tenebraeli

2003-08-31 03:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

***smoooch***

You go girl!

vampsarecool

2003-08-31 03:27 pm (UTC) (Link)

oh my...and I like Isabella's stuff when I read Spuffy. Such a shame.
Hope

Sigh!

witch_wolf

2003-08-31 03:40 pm (UTC) (Link)

I don't understand it myself. I wish people would mellow out. I don't think it should be the challenge of fanfic or the next big all out war.

I like Spangel and I like slash.

I understand where people are coming from. I know that allure of Spuffy and straight het fanfic. I don't think people who are anti-slash are homophobic, but don't care for it.

But, when people say "well-written" I am thrown, what do they consider well written, why not say, I don't read it, it's not for me instead, I would respect that.

I think that most slash writers that I have read are very good.

Sigh-- just sigh...

septembergrrl

2003-08-31 03:41 pm (UTC) (Link)

Feh.

You know, I'm not a huge male/male slash fan either (I'll read it if it's recced, but I've never gone looking for it.). But somehow, I manage to understand that what turns other people on, either intellectually or sexually, is not what turns me on all of the time. And it doesn't have to be.

My analogy would be chocolate ice cream. A lot of people love, adore, and worship chocolate ice cream. I don't, so I get vanilla instead. If for some reason all one ice cream store had was chocolate, I could either not get ice cream, or go to another store, or get chocolate just this once. No one would force me to get chocolate, just as no one forces het writers/readers to read slash.

gillards_girl

2003-08-31 03:41 pm (UTC) (Link)

I love you! I didn't know anything about the 'needing dick' theory and since I just got some and now want to write some slash, I have a feeling the theory isn't valid. I started out as a Spuffy girl, then went to Spillow, and am now on Spander... hmmm, on Spander, mmmm... sorry. Anyway, all those Spuffy shippers should quit bitchin' about the lack of Spuffy fic and write some if they're so worried about it. Oh well.

estepheia

2003-08-31 04:31 pm (UTC) (Link)

I didn't know anything about the 'needing dick' theory and since I just got some and now want to write some slash, I have a feeling the theory isn't valid.
You took the words right out of my mouth, sweetie.
Dicks are great, that's why I put two of them into the same scene. ;-)

(no subject) - gillards_girl, 2003-08-31 04:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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