Francine - harvest
I Blame the Dutch mpoetess
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Watching Fool For Love with the commentary for the first time, and I just hit the Spike/Dru making out against the wall in China scene.

You know, the one where Petrie says this is the first time Spike's ever had sex with Dru, and we all say "After 20 years? Are you on crack, Petrie?" (I had a post saying pretty much that a year or so ago when it came up in discussion on someone else's LJ and I went "Er?" but damned if I can find it now ETA - found it.)

Except, er, he doesn't. He says "This is the first time that he, you know, has Drusilla. I think that in their gang, Angelus has all the juice, and Spike just gave himself a promotion."

Which, to me, comes off as Petrie meaning that it's the first time Dru is his, that he has her as in has her full attention, that he's not just a substitute for when Daddy's too busy. (Or, since it's the Boxer rebellion and Angel's been missing for two years, a substitute for when Daddy buggers off to who knows where...)

The line is much more ambiguous than the fannish bibble about it led me to believe. To the point where were I hearing it without that interpretation already in my head, I'd never even consider that he might literally mean "It's the first time they've had sex."

ex_dovil323

2004-05-02 01:45 am (UTC) (Link)

I was really surprised when I heard the commentary for exactly the same reason, because to me it didn't sound like he was saying that they hadn't had sex previously. Especially after watching Destiny because there is no way in hell that Dru and Spike hadn't been shagging before they came in through those hotel doors. Spike looked too happy for one. :)

Or instead of babbling on for a paragraph I could have just said, I agree with you.

mpoetess

2004-05-02 02:03 am (UTC) (Link)

Oh, hell, they're making out on his mum's sofa in Lise My Parents Told Me, a few days after his death, and he's certainly not shy about it.

But I wouldn't blame Petrie for historical scenes written after he made the commentary, if I thought he actually meant the "haven't had sex until 1900" thing. (Or even, as I think Kita offered, hadn't had sex without Angelus' permission until then - which still doesn't really work for me in the 2 years that he's not with them from 1898 to 1900)

But yeah, it doesn't seem to me like that line of Petrie's is meant to mean that at all.

mpoetess

2004-05-02 02:24 am (UTC) (Link)

*cough* Lies My Parents Told Me

doyle_sb4

2004-05-02 06:13 am (UTC) (Link)

I like it with the other spelling. Parents, telling about Lise Meitner, the scientist who discovered the mechanism for nuclear fission *g*

auroramama

2004-05-02 03:48 pm (UTC) (Link)

Like my dad told me -- probably when I was very young, but again years later after he'd created this course on women in science. It's been a big topic of conversation in the last six months, and he bought me that new biography of her.

Um.

Does this mean I may not be the only person whose parents told them Lise?

doyle_sb4

2004-05-02 03:52 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hee! I told my parents Lise after I did a project on her in college... I couldn't believe I'd never heard of her before.

ex_dovil323

2004-05-02 02:25 am (UTC) (Link)

My interpretation was that it was basically a big ol vamp free for all as far as family relations were concerned. I can just see the demon social workers coming to cart poor little Willy away from the den of incestuous iniquity.

I just can't picture vampires, who are basically just pleasure junkies, having qualms about having sex with someone just because of their gender or their standing in the family. Blood or orgasms, doesn't matter where you get them from. And I also can't see Spike and Dru being denied sex with each other for 20 years because they would have just snuck out and shagged anyway, consequences be damned. Darla wouldn't put up with those kind of power games from Angelus for that long and she definitely wore the pants in that family, in my opinion, and I think she'd get bored with the idea. Or at least bored with the whining from Dru and Spike.

So in conclusion: Vampires; Sluts of the Demon World.

iyalode

2004-05-02 05:03 am (UTC) (Link)

I've been watching this scene obsessively of and on for the last couple of days for ::cough:: research, and I agree with you.

Dru likes her drama, and her men to make dramatic gestures (or perhaps that's just an overflow of Daddy's influence).

Either way, Spike finally seems to achieve something worthy in her eyes. In addition, Spike now knows he can match it with the big boys, in that aspect I thought it was a very special moment for him as well.


zortified

2004-05-02 06:19 am (UTC) (Link)

Maybe it means it's the first time Spike has Dru - and every other time Dru had Spike. So Spike did, indeed, become alpha male instead of being beta male who gets played with when Daddy says it's OK.

herself_nyc

2004-05-02 10:16 am (UTC) (Link)

That's the interpretation I like.

mpoetess

2004-05-02 11:14 pm (UTC) (Link)

Me too, really. This is the first time that Dru is mesmerised by him, instead of vice versa. (Though at this date, with LMPTM and Detiny behind us, I can't buy canonically the idea that Angelus ever tried to separate them or played uber-dom, can-only-fuck-with-my-permission on them. I don't mind the dynamic in fic, because hell, it's hot, but I have to shift it onto the AU shelf in my head, because imo canon Angelus just did not care enough to play those games with them -- he wanted Dru out of his hair when he wasn't specifically in the mood to play with her.

Girl power

auroramama

2004-05-02 03:57 pm (UTC) (Link)

I think that in their gang, Angelus has all the juice, and Spike just gave himself a promotion."

Just had to enter my usual qualification to the usual Angelus as Big Daddy thing, which is that (1) Darla seems to have been in charge of herself, at the very least, and (2) once Drusilla is an insane vampire with visions, Angelus plays with her and may even mock her, but she doesn't seem afraid of him (except for that delicious anticipatory fear that she and Darla both seem to enjoy as a thrill.) Angelus can usually persuade Dru, but when he can't, he doesn't use force; he waits for the crazy to pass. This strikes me as pretty egalitarian for an evil hundred-year-old vampire.

So maybe Angelus had all the boy juice, but Darla and Dru are pretty juicy their own selves.

And Dru and Spike? I'll buy that it's the first time he has her full respect. She pays lots of attention to her inanimate toys, after all. And she didn't go looking for an Angelus clone. She found something different. But this is the first time he surprised and impressed her.

And no one was arguing with me, were they? Um, sorry. I'm a ranter without a cause.

kita0610

2004-05-02 06:21 pm (UTC) (Link)

you know, has Drusilla

Sounds like sex to me. HAS as a euphamism for fucked, cause he couldn't say that on the DVD. I totally buy he never fucked her. Might have done everything else. But if Daddy said no to that? No way Dru would disobey.

mpoetess

2004-05-02 11:07 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah, but thirty seconds before that, Petrie was saying "That scene with the finger? That's the dirtiest scene we ever did. Right here. I'll just leave the commentary to your imagination." He uses the phrases sex, sexual tension, etc. all through the commentary for this ep. No particular reason he couldn't or wouldn't say "has sex with" instead of "has" if that's what he meant.