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I Blame the Dutch mpoetess
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Not So Deep Whovian Thoughts
Well, deeper than OMG squee he looked at Rose's cleavage it R teh luv!1! But not much. Because head hurts, stole maeyan's last Excedrin migraine, and am going to crawl back into bed for a bit in a minute.

I feel kind of lost and floaty about the new DW. I'm enjoying it because OMG Doctor Who! On my screen! Not made by Americans! (And I say this as someone who really didn't mind the TV movie that much.) OTOH the shorter format (45 minutes for a whole story where stories used to run around 90 min when put together from their half hour serial parts, and on my PBS station growing up, I was used to the omnibus version) and oddly, the fact that the writer is very obviously a fanboy, are making it all seem too rushed. Like RTD is trying too hard to have a Doctor/Ace relationship right off the bat, when Rose doesn't have that much depth to her yet. I don't find her annoying, but she's not been developed enough yet in terms of personality and background to have earned the level of camaraderie they're trying to play off between her and the Doctor. It's enjoyable; I like when there's that level of comfort and closeness and "Plan 9-c?" between the Doc and his friends -- I just feel like it's too soon.

Then there's Who fandom, about which I've always been kind of conflicted. On the local level, dude, I became friends with maeyan and later we both became friends with sarabi, because we were among the few semi-fanatical Whofen on campus. And my first exposure to cons and fanfic came from similar circumstances in high school, with a friend who disappeared into the wilds of Chicago while I was in college. With my TomDoc hat, the wee ratbastard! I owe him 20 bucksish though, so I suppose we're close to even.

But on the internet level, I never quite connected back in 95/96 etc. when I first got online. Partly because the sheer sudden numbers of people who'd been talking this stuff to death for years while I was off being a feral fan made me feel (quite rightly) like an utter n00b, partly my own general shyness. (You in the back who are about to point out my BOOBIES OMG! icons and general whorishness in Buffy fandom can pipe down plz. :-P I am shy, for real.) Maybe a bit of it was the level of crayzee in the crayzee parts of the fandom, but honestly Jossverse has crazier. And probably there was the fact that at heart, I am a shipper. Not usually a canon shipper, X-Files aside, and definitely leaning towards boyslash, but in general, I'm going to be looking for the romance angle between at least one set of characters. And DW is overall a gen fandom. It's overall a gen show, so this is not surprising. But for whatever reason, I mostly lurked through two or three years worth of online fandom in DW, then slid away.

And that was partly due to sliding away from the new canon, what there was of it, which is point three on the "Am I actually in this fandom now?" table. I read and mostly enjoyed my way through all of the Virgin Publishing 7th Doctor New Adventures including the post-Doc Benny Summerfield books, and they're sort of pseudo-canon in my mind. I didn't read all of the Missing Adventures (past Doctor stories); just here and there. Same for the BBC novels -- made it up to... where Sam Jones leaves, I think, and then gave up on that canon. It was just too convoluted for me, possibly too dark, definitely too SF in places (where the tv series has always been a mix of SF, pseudo-fantasy, comedy, historical shenanigans, etc.) and too deep into the history of Gallifrey for me to follow or be comfortable with it.

So now we have this new series that seems like it's possibly taking its canon from the BBC novels, with as yet unrevealed backstory regarding the Doc's home planet, etc. Which is stuff that I missed out on because I gave up on the novels. I get that we're not meant to have to have read the novels to enjoy the broadcast story, but there's a good 5 to 7 years worth of canon or semi-canon that the current active fandom knows, and I don't. So... am I old school because I'm familiar with the broadcast canon? Am I a n00b because I drifted away from the BBC novels, plus I was never active in online fandom even when I was there? Do I even want to be active in DW fandom now, or stick to the safety-net of my friendslist, which has a reasonable mix of "OMG Doctor Who, this is nifty, where are the Doc/Rose communities?" and "So you do know there was a show before this one, right?" folks.

And it's not like there's fic waiting to burn its way out of my keyboard, and my discussion needs are pretty well served by the people who are currently around, so far, so...

Bed now.

nostalgia_lj

2005-04-17 08:53 pm (UTC) (Link)

Like RTD is trying too hard to have a Doctor/Ace relationship right off the bat, when Rose doesn't have that much depth to her yet.

EEEE NOOOO! Ace never shagged him!!

Same for the BBC novels -- made it up to... where Sam Jones leaves, I think, and then gave up on that canon. It was just too convoluted for me, possibly too dark

Heh, that's the same reasons I ditched the NAs for the Beeb books!

So... am I old school because I'm familiar with the broadcast canon? Am I a n00b because I drifted away from the BBC novels, plus I was never active in online fandom even when I was there?

It's very odd. I think you get to not count as a n00b though, yo. I reckon fandom gave up following all the semi-canons and just gave up and everyone went their own way with it, so it's not too bad in terms of folk going "omg u did not read this one line in a book nine years ago! NOOB! FLAME!"

mpoetess

2005-04-18 04:08 am (UTC) (Link)

EEEE NOOOO! Ace never shagged him!!

Hee. *cough* Quite right.

Doctor and Ace relationship.

Heh, that's the same reasons I ditched the NAs for the Beeb books!

I can't say the NA's didn't get darker than I preferred. I think I just stuck it out because it was Seven, whereas eventually the Beeb books lost me because I didn't know Eight well enough to follow them just for his sake.

so it's not too bad in terms of folk going "omg u did not read this one line in a book nine years ago! NOOB! FLAME!"

Is there a wee pocket of fandom where they pretend Ace the constantly-on-the-rag-ex-mercenary never happened? Because I'm still in WTF-ville over that one.

nostalgia_lj

2005-04-18 10:30 am (UTC) (Link)

omg yes! there is many people who go "wtf? in what crackverse would ACE become a sodding mercenary?!"

mpoetess

2005-04-19 12:23 am (UTC) (Link)

*clingz 2 them*

ci5rod

2005-04-17 10:08 pm (UTC) (Link)

Well, if you're a n00b then so am I, and I don't care to be honest. Whovian fandom is something I've never been interested in, mostly because they all seemed to be obsessed with Tom Baker who I absolutely hated. Oh, and I never read any of the novels at all, apart from the really old novelisations of episodes, so I pretty much excluded myself.

I get the impression that RTD is trying to keep the episodes very fast paced, partly to keep us viewers off balance and partly because he's portraying the Doctor as hiding behind this 'fun' mask which demands that he is at least a bit of an action man. There are some 2-part stories coming up, though.

mpoetess

2005-04-18 04:10 am (UTC) (Link)

I don't really have a problem with the fast pace of the eps themselves -- I notice it and sigh, but I can see why it has to be. I just think he's pushing the character development a bit too far, too fast. Not in terms of the Doc -- I'm all in favor of Eccleston's International Man of Mystery And Silliness take on it.

journalkitten

2005-04-18 12:41 am (UTC) (Link)

BOOBIES! OM...Oh, heh, sorry, piping down ;-)

And? *blink* How did I miss that Doctor Who is back on? I knew it was coming, but...*rubs hands together gleefully* More procrastination materials! Whoohoo!

mpoetess

2005-04-18 04:11 am (UTC) (Link)

BOOBIES!OMG!

It's on, but not in the US yet. Enter the joy of bittorrent...

(Deleted comment)

mpoetess

2005-04-18 04:17 am (UTC) (Link)

I think the novels might have some backstory on Gallifrey, and where the Doc is mentally as of the beginning of the new TV series, but probably not any backstory that we're meant to know in order to follow the current series.

I think my 'gen... yeah... so...' feelings come from a combination of old ones -- (I was probably never meant to be a gen person; I was always about looking for who was going to be 2 gether 4 eva, and the only thing that saved me for 15 years of DW fandom was rampant Mary-Sueing. *g*) and coming back to it after 5 years of BtVS slashery. Gen tends to feel to me like I'm cutting off my own natural tendency to want romance, and... like watching tv in black and white when I know it's broadcast in color, or something.

not_vacillating

2005-04-18 07:35 am (UTC) (Link)

I have a new obsession I can share with a tiny number of people and it doesn't involve thinking about pr0n, which is kinda neat.

May I ask where you found them? Because in my (total newbie) neck of the woods, everyone's Doctor/Rose shipping when they're not demanding Doctor/Treewoman pr0n. *is writing pro-gen essay in hope of converting people*

thedivinegoat

2005-04-18 12:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

There needs to be a Gen Doctor Who community. After all the shippers get communities. ;-)

not_vacillating

2005-04-18 06:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah, there should be a gen_who comm, or something. Not that I have time to set up or maintain it or anything, as I'm already a mod at new_who.

thedivinegoat

2005-04-18 09:37 pm (UTC) (Link)

doctor_who_gen

You'll have to forgive the crap User Info, I'll try and put together something a bit better tomorrow. ;-)

(Deleted comment)

not_vacillating

2005-04-19 07:55 am (UTC) (Link)

The scary communities are full of 'shippers, many of whom are really nice people, but the 'shipping can get wearing.

And thanks! It's based on something loneraven said. Yours is good too-- Rose's 'I'm talking to a twig' moment is one of my favourites.

iyalode

2005-04-18 08:30 am (UTC) (Link)

OMG Doctor Who! On my screen!

Curses dial-up. grrr.

In Aust we had the half hour shows Mond to Thurs. Followed by The Goodies. Loves!

As for boobies. Leela! Muchos boobies.

mpoetess

2005-04-19 12:18 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm on dial-up too -- it's just taking a few days to download. *g* I started on Sunday (or Sat night, maybe?) and I'm at 86% now.

Agreed = Leela = much boobies!

samantha2074

2005-04-19 02:09 am (UTC) (Link)

I've been a DW fan since the Davison years and peripherally involved in online fandom for the past several years, but I've only read a handful of the NAs and EDAs combined. For me they don't exist, and I'm perfectly happy ignoring what I haven't read.

I'm saddened and frustrated by what seems to be a divide between old and new fans. I knew there would be a certain culture shock, but I didn't expect the segregation that's occurred. I guess I was naive in assuming that new fans would join existing communities instead of creating their own. I've been gritting my teeth at the profileration of new, overlapping communities. There's enough cross-posting to drive me crazy, but at the same time enough original content on many of the groups that I feel like I miss out if I don't subscribe.

Yeah, there are plenty of old fans who are asshats. I have to take periodic breaks to keep myself same. But I wish there weren't this great divide between the two camps. I want to enjoy the old and new series. I want to be a gen, slash, and het fan, but I can't keep up with the cliques and the fora and all that shit.

mpoetess

2005-04-19 02:16 am (UTC) (Link)

*nod* I think I'm going to use my friendslist as fandom filter, for a while. It's worked so far -- nostalgia_lj always knows where to find the batshit insane wank that I can watch from afar, doyle_sb4 is all sane and filled with the new-fan glee at the same time, wolfling is a fellow McCoy-lover...

great post

nzraya

2005-05-01 04:07 am (UTC) (Link)

Oh boy (here via metafandom) --

SO AGREE about Doctor/Rose (whether romantic or not) being pushed too fast, rather than "earned". To the point where it actually is causing me to find her annoying, just a little. Like, please try not to look at him *quite* so adoringly, dear, d'you mind? And her utter faith in him, while touching, is a little excessive under the circs (yes, so far they've always survived, but they've also always almost not -- which we know is how it goes, but she shouldn't feel quite so complacent about just yet, if ever). There's a weird daddy thing going there (the Doctor will know just what to do/You're not going to fly away and abandon me, are you?) that creeps me out a little, although perhaps that's intended.

And, share your ambivalence re: the fandom issues. In my case it definitely stems from being "a certain age"; I was in the 9-12-ish age range when Peter Davison did his stint, totally imprinted on him, lost interest after that, but now come to the new series with a combination of old-school-ish expectations and newly-kindled (but not by DW) fannishness, and it's hard to find a groove (esp. when the show is so overtly post-Buffy), so for now I'm really watching the show as just a show; no plot bunnies or whathaveyou, and very few meta thoughts at all until I read this post!

Re: great post

mpoetess

2005-05-02 02:21 pm (UTC) (Link)

I did read a post by taraljc postulating that at least on the Doctor's part, the speed of trying to connect with Rose might make sense, because he's now in a completely different position than he ever was w/ regard to companions and connections. Gallifrey's gone and he's all alone, and very needy of someone to trust.

Not that I don't still feel they're moving too fast even with that in mind, but it does mitigate some of my discomfort.

Re: great post

nzraya

2005-05-02 03:30 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah, plus he's an alien. I don't have so much of a problem with that (though I did kind of dig the old-skool more aloof Doctor style -- where you had to read between the lines to know that they cared). From Rose's side, though, all this googly-eyed-ness makes me tired. Although then again, her character is hard for me to take in general -- people compare her to Buffy, but for my money (though of course both comparisons are superficial) she's more like early Cordelia, only with less going on upstairs. Seriously, she has ye olde "emotional intelligence" or whatever, but she makes me spend way too much time yelling instructions at the TV...

And no matter what, it's always cooler when bonds are earned in combat, so to speak, rather than forked over on the very first apocalypse *g*