I Blame the Dutch mpoetess
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*pokes Journalfen with a long, non-conductive stick, from waaaaaaaaay over here*

*considers copying all the Buffy-related wank in the [very unlikely] case of FW going boom*


2005-06-27 03:16 pm (UTC) (Link)

Oh, there was a thing. And then another thing, and a couple of F_W mods seem to have left in a huff and are possibly fighting with the JF people, and the servers were/are broken, and I'm going to stay over here in livejournal land for a bit.

Really, it's all kind of tiresome, but it seems to have settled down now (at least in public), and at least it's not Fandom_Love any more. Wahoo!

No one has enough hard-drive space to hold ALL the Buffy wank. *grin*


2005-06-27 03:29 pm (UTC) (Link)

*nodnod* Sadly, I have already followed all the Things to their publically-posted ends, and am still omgwtf at. Um. Everyone.


2005-06-27 03:41 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah, that's a good point. There certainly did seem to be a lot of asshattery flying in from all directions. And it's sad when people you thought were pretty sane and clever suddenly go batshit crazy, all out in public like that. And the bitching! So nasty and personal! I do not approve.

Maybe we should just count on an annual JF meltdown, and mark our calendars.


2005-06-27 06:12 pm (UTC) (Link)

Wow. That's really, really... masochistic of you. *g* I followed a bunch of stuff about last night, until I smacked up against the wall of "Enough now!"


2005-06-27 06:58 pm (UTC) (Link)

I have a pretty high tolerance for following other people's arguments within certain limits - there's just enough of the "Bitching and unhappiness was going on behind the scenes but we never got to see all of it" aspect in this case, for me to read most things people have to say about it just so that I can form a clearer picture of what people weren't saying before.


2005-06-27 03:17 pm (UTC) (Link)

God, that has been a tedious and ugly situation over there for the past few days; all over a not-terribly-funny joke, too.

Julia, spent way too much time last night reading the fw_debate entry and its links


2005-06-27 04:05 pm (UTC) (Link)

Indeed. The joke would've I think been funny if it had been limited to one post and the changing of the journal layout. (though I expect everyone flocking to see *that* may be what led to the server outages) Once the original post had been made, everything else was basically unfunny variations on the same one-liner.


2005-06-27 04:35 pm (UTC) (Link)

What is interesting, to me, is the way the Journalfen owners and the TWoP owners seem to have the same attitude towards their user base: people should be glad for what they're given, even if it includes big helpings of personal abuse and bad performance.

Makes me feel old, practiced as I am in the old ways of customer service and personal politeness.

Julia, and being from the land of Nordstrom's, to boot


2005-06-27 05:12 pm (UTC) (Link)

Mmm, Nordstroms. Where I cannot in fact shop for clothes (well, I don't think so, based on the last time I was in, but admittedly that was two or three years ago) but can get the best coffee, sandwiches, and clam chowder around. And indeed customer service was excellent.


2005-06-28 04:50 pm (UTC) (Link)

Well, they kind of have a point. Maybe if even a majority of fandom wankers were customers, there wouldn't be this problem. Like, customers? Who pay? It's a matter of the cost of a pack and a half of cigarettes too.

American-style arse-licking, floor scraping Customer!Let me love You! service for free users? Hm. I would be tetchy too, I think.

It is kind of like sharing your drink with someone and them drinking it all and then throwing the glass at you because you didn't give them enough. Kinda. I reckon, anyway.

Anyway, how are you. :D


2005-06-28 04:54 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah, but they don't make much dinstinction between free and paid users in terms of the general customer service (as opposed to features like extra icons, or immediate "I am a paid user and my account seems to be having a problem" things). And the things that are being complained about -- lack of FAQs, site downtime, refusing or avoiding offers of help -- affect everybody, including paid users.


2005-06-28 05:00 pm (UTC) (Link)

[I speak Re Journalfen; I forgot this was in response to a comment that mentioned both Journalfen and TWOP. TWOP management gets on my nerves for entirely different reasons that have everything to do with forum management being arbitrary and sometimes rude, and deeply slanted towards "love our recappers or shut up.")

And I like the Jornalfen owners in their capacity as Slashcity owners; they've been very professional and helpful. Journalfen is a weird situation, though -- I think telesilla has a pretty good handle on what the problems are.


2005-06-28 07:08 pm (UTC) (Link)


Oh yes. Now I see. The whole flocking-emailing thing is a separate issue, I think, and not much to do with me. Looks like a personal situation.

So, discounting that part, I suspect I am not going to get a real handle on the frustration because it never occurred to me that one should have a huge difference between free and paid users. I very much approached it the same way as at the museum? Or the art gallery? You don't *have* to pay, but it's courteous to do so if one can. And the service is the same for everybody - except you might get a badge. :) Or 50 icons.

I see now that other people do not take this approach. That's ok. :)


2005-06-28 07:40 pm (UTC) (Link)

Well, like Telesilla (and esorlehcar in the comments to that post) was saying, lots of people (me included) understand and support the 'museum' idea of "this isn't a service you're paying for, it's a fannish project we're hosting out of the goodness of our hearts, and any money you kick in is a donation." That's different from, say, your internet service provider who you pay to get you online, and if your internet connection goes out, you have the right to complain and ask for assistance or reimbirsement.

The conflicts have come because the owners of Journalfen haven't entirely made clear which situation Journalfen falls under; sometimes it seems one way, sometimes the other. (LJ tried for a long time to say they were the museum-type thing, but various features and services and the final sale to Six Apart make it pretty clear that they're mostly a business that would like to have paid users, albeit one that offers a lot of nifty stuff even for free users.)

It's even fuzzier with Journalfen because the same people run Slashcity, which is very much a professional webhosting company (albeit one which is friendly to slashers), where when you pay for something, you're actually paying for specific services that you have a right to complain about if you don't get them. And which has quite good customer service.


2005-06-29 02:59 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm fine, although when I got notification of your reply in my inbox I for got where I'd written the comment.

I hope you never get here to be disappointed by the averae level of customer service in the US, because it's usually more like Microsoft or Dell than Nordie's.

My perception of JF and other webhosting services, as well as my own broadband company, and sites like TWoP, is that they expect customers free, paid, whatever, to suck it up and deal and take what they're offered. Which can get a bit... stressful, mostly.

Julia, having done the Home Depot thing today, customer Service seems a distant dream.


2005-06-29 08:00 pm (UTC) (Link)

I hope you never get here to be disappointed by the averae level of customer service in the US, because it's usually more like Microsoft or Dell than Nordie's.

Heee! I only speak from watching those curious programmes we have over here, where journalists go off to America and, um, sort of gently poke the locals until they do weird, American things like ummm, I dunno, build replicas of death camps or remove parts of their bodies or sometimes just stare at the English person with a fixed, unbreakable smile and chant Have A Nice Day at them until they go away. You know, like Louis Theroux' Weird Weekends or suchlike. And vague childhood memories, of course.

*rubs your weary Home Depoted feet*


2005-06-29 08:02 pm (UTC) (Link)

urgh: that was Dody. Don't know what happened there.


2005-06-27 03:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

What am I missing now?


2005-06-27 04:19 pm (UTC) (Link)

Meh - the fandom_love thing, which I thought was funny once, just watching people go "WTF?" but got old really fast, caused a lot of downtime on the JF servers on Friday or Saturday. This relatively unimportant fact brought out a lot of bitching about one faction thinking FW gets more privilege from the JF owners than other paid users do. A locked post from one person's journal was both forwarded to JF admin, and reposted in someone else's journal, both of the Journalfen owners had varying levels of meltdowns, people are being rude to both them and each other, at least one of the JF owners is being rude right back, and as a sidenote has said that offering to host FW was the biggest mistake ever, which is making some of the FW regulars consider going elsewhere.

In short, wank.


2005-06-27 03:37 pm (UTC) (Link)

Did they at least stop that silly fandom_love thing? And was there, you know, a *reason* for that particular brand of insanity? So much less funny than their normal.


2005-06-27 04:12 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah, the fandom_love thing was only for the one day; it just had a couple of people who weren't sure when it as supposed to be over who posted on the next day as well.

The reason was basically "Let's do something silly on the anniversary of Deletegate, and this time let's include all of FW membership in it so no one in the comm can bitch about stuff going on behind their backs." Which is why there was a post about it in fw_debate, which anybody who wants to have a voice in the meta comm-running part of FW is supposed to have friended. In theory it was all fine, but in practice, a) there was some SNAFU with getting the news to the JF admin that it was going to happen on that particular day, so no one was manning the servers for the big slam that happened and b) nobody did much with it that was actually funny. In some cases they just took it as an opportunity to be catty to people who've already been wanked and hadn't done anything recently.


2005-06-28 05:37 am (UTC) (Link)

I love the irony -- the biggest F_W wank ever, and it isn't *on* F_W, strictly speaking. Heh heh.


2005-06-28 02:01 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hee. Much of the original Biggest Wank Ever -- the TOSing from Livejournal -- wasn't on FW either, just because at the time, there was no FW to put it on. It's scattered across various LJs and temporary boards and the yahoogroups mailing list.


2005-06-28 03:31 pm (UTC) (Link)

the TOSing from Livejournal

Guess I missed that one.


2005-06-28 03:34 pm (UTC) (Link)

It was.. eesh. January 2003 or so? The mists of time.


2005-06-28 03:35 pm (UTC) (Link)

I guess that makes sense then, since it happened three months before I became an LJ member. Huh. What happened -- what was the wank?


2005-06-28 03:44 pm (UTC) (Link)

It was shortly after FW started, really, only a few months. No one is entirely sure which wank set it off, but someone apparently complained to LJ Abuse, and the journal was deleted, we think for 'harrassment.' I think they never gave a straight answer to arkane156, who was the original community owner. (And whose personal LJ was deleted as well, because she tried to start up replacement FW comms and indicated that she'd keep doing it with her LJ codes as long as LJ kept deleting them.)

Given the number of individual times LJ has refused to step in in cases of much more clear harrassment and/or iffy issues (the pro-eating-disorders comms, for instance), the continued non-tolerance of FW (last I heard LJ was still suspending any RSS feeds of the JF version, if they discovered that's what they were) is kind of a running, if annoying, joke.


2005-06-28 03:59 pm (UTC) (Link)

Wow, yes, that does seem biased and unfair of them. (And yeah, those pro-eating-disorder comms REALLY freak me out).