Francine - harvest
I Blame the Dutch mpoetess
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Just. Tired.

I wish I didn't care about being labeled insane, delusional...

But my mother is, and I was raised by people who believed it was something awful and horrible and her fault and we should all be ashamed of it. I know better intellectually, but it's a pretty fucking big stigma for me. There are reasons I avoid considering seeing a shrink about potential depression, and that's a big one. So yeah, it pisses me off, and it hits me hard, and like someone poking at their own wounds, I keep reading people who I know are going to question my sanity, vocally, because I'm not jumping on the Kill Spike Now bandwagon. Because I *don't* think what happened makes him forever lost.

I wish I didn't see "And this means you, Amy" in every post where people are screaming their frustration and anger and rage at anyone who doesn't hate Spike because of the events of this episode. But I don't hate him, and I do see it, and it makes me tired and hurt and just.

Like I'm now never allowed to write anything with my viewpoint character, the one I've come to know from inside, tried to understand his conflicts, tried to treat Buffy fairly as a character, see her values in his eyes, defend her to the slashtwits who make her the Big Bitch Villain, when I personally can't fucking stand her... And I can't write him without bowing and scraping and disclaimering "But this is an AU Spike. I'm not trying to whitewash him. Real Spike is bad and evil and can't be saved and isn't worth being saved, and should be staked now, now, now." And even the disclaimer won't work. It really won't. I'll still be one of *Them* The ones who can ratiionalize anything away and you'd never want to trust us in a room with your innocent kids.

Fuck it.

Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.

I'm going to go outside and eat worms, kay?

Re: Sweetie.....


2002-05-09 12:40 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hee. No asskicking need be done on my part. No one has attacked me personally -- I'm just sad because the general condemnation out there makes me feel defensive and marginalized and at some level, *bad* for feeling for a character that, it has been ordained, doesn't deserve to have anyone speak on his behalf.

And I know there are people out there (hi Vali) who are disgusted with some pro-Spike reactions, and with very good reason. I'm disgusted with some of them too. I just wish the whole issue didn't generate so much, well, judgement, on the parts of some fans, not of the characters, but of large groups of people who have complex feelings and thoughts about the characters, that can't be boiled down to "If you still like Spike at all, you're twisted."

Thank you for the hug, and the compliments. I'm glad you've liked my characterizations -- though this post isn't in any way meant to generate some ego-boosting flood of reassurance.

Actually, the slashtwits comment was for *real* slashtwits. People who write Buffy out of character and bash her up and downt he street in their fic in order to a) have fun doing so because they dislike her and b) have what they think is an easy villain. I dislike her at times, can't stand her at times, feel for her at times, and occasionally like her. But I don't feel the need to paint her as a cruel vicious bitch, when she isn't.

Re: Sweetie.....


2002-05-09 01:17 pm (UTC) (Link)

(("If you still like Spike at all, you're twisted." )))

I'm with you in twistedness then. I like his character cause he's multilayered, fascinating and pretty. But the other stuff, I guess we have to agre to disagree on, and that's that.

See above post. (I got your reply in TBQ's LJ, dunno if you read this one yet.)

Christ on a motorcar I wish we could consolidate this conversation in one frelling place.


Re: Sweetie.....


2002-05-09 01:31 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yeah. Peace, really. re various posts. I like you too, Donna, and if we don't agree on some things, we don't agree. Like I said, I respect your feelings about this.

Re the comment circles:

I (or anybody with a paid LJ account) could set up an LJ community for BtVS/Angel discussion. Problem is, what would we call it? BtVS slash discussion? There's non-slashers in the general discussion circles that we all seem to fall into. BtVS fan discussion? There's lots of those out there, and it's likely to attract 14 year olds. BtVS adult critical discussion? BtVS fanwriters-and-fanfic-readers discussion?

It's a cool idea -- with LJ communities, you post from your own LJ, and just pick from a dropdown box to have the post displayed in the community blog instead of in yours. Kinda like Common Street Trash. I just don't know how we'd define it, to fit all the people who tend to do this comment and respond LJ-cycle that we're all in. They're not all wroters, they're not all slashfans, yet saying "Buffy/Angel fans" opens the doors so damn wide...

The one suck is that while anybody could respond with comments, though non-LJ members wouldn't have kicky icons, only LJ people could post an entry to *start* a discussion.

(Deleted comment)

Re: Naming of Names


2002-05-09 02:28 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hmm - what might be better than an LJ community, would be an EZboard type thing. Yeah, they suck for large groups, can be unreliable, but anyone can start a topic, doesn't have to be a member. Some of them even have snazzy icons.

AKA, a posting board forum -- threaded, not like the Bronze, which gives me the shivers. HTML capable so you could post pics if you liked.

Re: Naming of Names


2002-05-10 09:46 pm (UTC) (Link)

Ah, but EZBoard would be yet one more place to go to and would end up creating more fragmentation rather than consolidating the discussion that's already on LiveJournal. And having only LJ folks be able to start a topic would help with keeping the volume to an interesting-but-manageable level and the content to cool discussion rather than 14-year-old drooling (which has its place, I'll admit -- it's just not a place I want to be *g*).

I would be utterly thoroughly thrilled if someone started a Buffyverse LJ community. I would also suggest, in the interest of keeping it to thoughtful discussion and away from one-liners and drool, that the name not immediately identify it as Buffy-related. As you pointed out, that would immediately attract too many people looking for something other than thoughtful adult-level discussion. The name doesn't have to identify it if the bio defines it clearly, and links to the new community from a handful of oft-frequented journals would ensure that the right folks find it.

My suggestion for a name would be either Somber Violins or Darker Than This, but those reflect my Spike-bias and my music bias. Those are the names of a couple of Spike songs I found and promptly fell in love with. Yep, biased biased biased.

Re: Sweetie.....


2002-05-09 09:44 pm (UTC) (Link)

No ego boosting intended. 'Tis the truth.