Francine - harvest
I Blame the Dutch mpoetess
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Mixed up vampires


TBQ and Keren both point out quite rightly that Angel(us) draws and paints; Spike wrote poetry when he was human. Having Angel write a poem to Spike or Spike sketching Angel lying naked in bed, doesn't work, and can make you look like, well...like you haven't been watching the show(s).

Though I can see it working in a situation where the author makes it obvious that she's aware of that fact -- for instance, Angel making fun of William's bad poetry, and modern-day Spike challenging him to do better -- or Spike repaying Angel's gift of a naked painting of the two of them together, with stick-figure porn.

Not what I was going to say. What I was going to say was, Joss sort of buggered up his own canon, and confused the newbies, on the drawing!Spike issue. Spike's little shrine to Buffy in the basement of his crypt includes several sketches of her -- so unless they were ones that Angel did, and Spike managed to steal them from Buffy, or rescue them from the mansion/factory-ruins, Spike can at least sketch.

Note that I'm not suggesting people should run with this -- I'm more pointing out that Joss and co. can be just as guilty of muddying their own continuity. Granted, they're allowed, because it's their continuity, or lack thereof -- but it still makes me want to grab somebody and say "Look, we have a group of about 20 diehard fans with eyes, memories, critical thinking skills and in some cases postgraduate degrees. We'll work for free. Please? Please?


kita0610

2002-06-06 05:41 pm (UTC) (Link)

Ah, forgot your rant, tho I did see it I believe.

God, a This Is Not Canon list would ROCK. Things to put on there?

Buffy does not smell like vanilla, although apparantly, Willow DOES smell like strawberries.

SEX is not what makes Angel lose his soul. And no, you morons, it's not that he can only have sex with DEMONS. HAPPINESS comma PERFECT. Hello. Write it down.

I know TBQ et al will disagree with me, but I don't mind the word childe if used sparingly in fic. But if you make Angel SAY it, or CALL SOMEONE that, you better have a DAMN fine explanation. Cause it's. not. canon.

Drusilla bit and turned Spike. Sorry. Joss fucked all us slashers up the ass with it, but it's true. You wanna say Angel taught him everything he knows, hey, I'm all for that. You wanna say he was Angelu's boytoy for 26 years, hey baby, I'm your greatest fan. But Dru sired him. She sired Darla, who was older, infinitely more powerful and sincerely PISSED OFF about it. Methinks she could have handled one William the Not Yet Bloody.

Willow is not a Wiccan. She may be "Wicca", whatever the fuck Joss wants that to entail, but she doesn't talk to or about any pagan diety except when it serves a plot point in her 'spell casting', she doesn't celebrate the Sabbats, and she most certainly never exclaims "OH GODDESS!" when upset. The only Wiccan in Jossverse just got shot.

Xander's father never beat him. Never raped him. Never threatened his life. Canon has him as an alcoholic, and not a great guy. Apparantly, Xander would rather sleep outside than with his family on holidays. You could *make a case* that Xander was abused physically, but for godsake MAKE IT, don't assume it, because all we have seen is lousy parenting, not anything yet worthy of a federal crime.

Ah Christ. I'm ranting.





mpoetess

2002-06-06 05:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

Actually, if you're just going by what Jenny/Uncle wossisface said, it's not Happiness, perfect. It's happiness, true. Which could be a world of difference.

Fans, and later even the characters, have said "perfect" -- but the only ones who knew what the fuck they were talking about, said "true."

kita0610

2002-06-06 05:49 pm (UTC) (Link)

Ok, I give. What's the dif??

-D

mpoetess

2002-06-06 05:56 pm (UTC) (Link)

"True" happiness could happen very easily -- it's an indication of genuine feeling, unmarred by other negative ones. Angel seeing his son for the first time? True happiness. Come on, Joss.

"Perfect" happiness is a retcon, that allows them to do crap like Fred's little "But not perfectly happy, right?" "Perfect" happiness allows them to rate Angel's happy, so they can say "it's okay, because he wasn't *quite* as happy here as he was with Buffy"

kita0610

2002-06-06 06:04 pm (UTC) (Link)

I see what you're GETTING at, but I don't necessarily agree...k, like Angel seeing his son, for ex. They were VERY careful to be sure everyting else was totally fucked up at that moment. Darla, who Angel finally felt affection for, staking herself. Holtz with a CROSSBOW aimed at him. And later on, all the denizens of Hell wanting his kid dead.

And now, they've ensured he can never be truly/perfectly/wtf happy with Connor, because he wil always remember the years lost to Quortoth, not to mention hanging out with Sponge Bob at the bottom of the sea. So, I don't see the retcon in the changing of the word.

Now where I *would* see retcon is if they follow this A/C thing all the way thru, and then they have sex and he keeps his soul. Cause if he loves her, then...well, I dunno...

Unless one buys the argument (which actually, I do tend toward) that he isn't ever gonna lose his soul again because he's too damned worried about it happening to forget what he is. That to me rings true. Because the gypsy whatshisname said he "forgot to suffer" or something along those lines. I can't see him forgetting that again, least of all in a moment of passion.

But, if that's the case, the closet B/A shipper in me would say..HEY! Go back to Sunnydale! Ha.


(no subject) - mpoetess, 2002-06-07 07:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - byrne, 2002-06-07 08:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mpoetess, 2002-06-07 09:12 am (UTC) (Expand)

mpoetess

2002-06-06 05:53 pm (UTC) (Link)

Yes, we need a "This is not canon" list.

James and I have a little one at S/X & Violence, mainly dealing with Xander and Spike issues (not necessarily X/S issues) but yeah, we need one big one, located somewhere away from anybody's particular guild site, so we can be as snarky as we wanna be, then just link from our own sites and pretend we're not responsible...

mpoetess

2002-06-06 05:58 pm (UTC) (Link)

http://www.jbx.com/~boethius/canfan.html

Some of them are more just little geeky canon lists, but the xander's parents, xander's friends, and chocolate ones, at least, are pages where we bitched a bit.

thebratqueen

2002-06-06 05:54 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hey - you're the ficbitch, wanna host the this is not canon list? I'd offer except your website gets more traffic than mine.

/me goes to post about this in her own journal.

kita0610

2002-06-06 06:04 pm (UTC) (Link)

I'll host it on GAH as a Host A Rant, sure. And I'll make sure to announce it in a few key places. Or did you mean to make it like a whole site??


thebratqueen

2002-06-06 06:07 pm (UTC) (Link)

I was thinking of having the completed list be hosted somewhere, yeah.

(no subject) - kita0610, 2002-06-06 06:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)

kita0610

2002-06-06 06:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

P.S.

You're feeling better. This is my daily 'poke-write-my-smut'.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled life, already in progress.

-D

witchwillow

2002-06-06 06:14 pm (UTC) (Link)

::blushes::

guilty.

1) I think I have used childe

2) have definately had Willow saying "Oh Goddess" - though mainly when extremely upset. And it does relate to a later plot point in the fic. But still ::blush::

3)uhmm you should probably never read Dark Delight.

Which Mp, I"m going to work on right this minute, ,since I can't get my ass to bed, cause I need something to do to stop thinking about the apparently non-existant bomb that's not on tv.

kita0610

2002-06-06 06:18 pm (UTC) (Link)

Oh hell, I use childe too. I don't mind the word like MP, TBQ etc. do. There are many stories I love it in. But sparingly, and in some sort of context.

But, for instance, Angel randomly referring to Spike that way in an argument? Not so much.


mpoetess

2002-06-06 06:21 pm (UTC) (Link)

Er. /me admits to using childe in Domestic Piranhas, I believe, and possibly at least once in Chocolately Goodness. Not in direct address, though.

(no subject) - mpoetess, 2002-06-06 06:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kita0610, 2002-06-06 06:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
AGGGGHHHH - thete1, 2002-06-07 04:11 am (UTC) (Expand)

iroshi

2002-06-07 06:52 am (UTC) (Link)

Willow is not a Wiccan.

Da, thank you very much. Needed desperately to be said. She attended a Wiccan group meeting a couple of times, but decided it wasn't for her because they weren't discussing magic. It was clearly a religious meeting (and of the fluff-bunny variety, at that), and it wasn't what she wanted.

I've wished, this entire season, that Joss would make the distinction between Dark and Light Magic more clear. He *did* make the distinction, but only in random throw-away moments, like the demon in Buffy's form saying, "Did you cut the throat?!" and the like. Or when MarySue Riley was complimenting Will on turning back from the dark side. :)

But Joss doesn't have his own worldview straight in his head, so while we can hope and whine, we're not ever going to get a consistent canon out of him. And like most Mundanes (which, sorry, he is) he doesn't understand the distinction between religions which include a concept of magic, and the magic itself. Mind, I'm not Wiccan myself. But I am a pagan who does magic, and they're not intertwined. My husband is a pagan who, for the most part, *doesn't* do magic. And I know at least one magic-user who has little to no religious system at all. (Personally, I seldom say, "Oh goddess!" but frequently do say, "Oh gods!". :)

And can the simple grammar bitch in me moan just a minute over the phrase "a powerful Wicca"??? Please! "A Buddhism" or "A Christianity". GAH! Followers of Christianity are Christians, followers of Buddhism are Buddhists, followers of Wicca are Wiccans, and Willow's just a WITCH! (Which reminds me...Xander's line in I've Got a Theory was cute and all, but can we now, after seeing Willow go bad, agree that the concept of "evil witches" is not a contradiction?)

/rant. Thank you very much, I feel better now. :)